Title: Cheap DNA Subtitle: Natural Information About My Body Version 1.2 (wrapped text), 2.12.2008, by robomoon http://shintoist.com Introduction If we aren't biological clones or twins, both of us should have the DNA of our human bodies sequenced. This will enhance our identity by the notion that there are several million differences between us. Even when we are approximately 99.9% the same, these differences are enough to make it obvious that we are not the same creature. Sequencing the human genome has led researchers to identify genes that can cause some people in the population to be more susceptible to certain diseases such as cystic fibrosis. Automatic sequencing machines make the process much faster and more accurate. Resource: http://www.gene-sequencing.com Storage It's been more than five years ago when I embedded a hair including its root in dry glue for storage at home. But today, I'll get a better method for storage of my DNA. With DNA Archive from DNA Direct http://dnadirect.com I can store safe, stable DNA samples. DNA Archive uses lab-quality tubes, UV-resistant packaging, and Sample-Matrix technology. So my genetic history can be preserved with DNA samples for a very long time. 17.10.08 Submission of my order to DNA Direct in San Francisco, USA. Item: DNA Archive. Price: $250 incl. the fee for international shipping. 27.10.08 Mailing of DNA test kit documents including buccal swabs (cheek swab sample) from Frankfurt in Germany to North Carolina in USA. So I mailed a sample of DNA from my cheek cells on cotton swabs to the lab. LabCorp CMBP, in the RTP, NC 27709, is the lab charged by DNA Direct. 29.10.08 Greg Jordan, President of Society for Universal Immortalism (SfUI) http://universalimmortalism.org posted to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1674 with title: Information Storage Extraction and modified summary: Secure storage space in the Kansas salt mine will be $150 per year for approximately 55 cubic feet at 68 degrees F and 40% humidity. This would be only for biographical information (like diaries, journals, videos, photos, assorted papers) and keepsakes (small objects) as well as DNA info in dry format. 18.11.08 Wofram Research http://www.wolfram.com released version 7 of Mathematica, bringing new techniques for image processing and analysis. One of the software's computable data features builds in the entire human genome. Reference: Mathematica 7 arrives with built-in human genome http://news.cnet.com/8301-11386_3-10103197-76.html by Stephen Shankland for CNET news, 19.11.08. 26.11.08 The Patient Services Coordinator of DNA Direct received my email telling them about successful delivery of archive tins with my DNA from the USA to my home in Germany. Greg Jordan, President of SfUI, informed me by email about my membership status. So far, my Associate Membership is pending while it may be elected by votes. 29.11.08 As a suggestion for a change of the location in 2009, SfUI should be obliged to go forward with the acquirement of storage space in the Kansas salt mine. Messages Below are copies of robomoon's messages including extractions of replies that can be used as actual examples about his aproach to make a sample of his DNA getting into longterm storage. --------------message #1-------------- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Venturists/message/1043 posted to Venturists at YAHOO GROUPS on 10.10.08. It contained copies of robomoon's recent messages from Universal Immortalism discussion at YAHOO GROUPS, a forum administered by the Society for Universal Immortalism. Title: Is storage of a DNA sample in Russia a nice idea? The copies of messages below stem from the file "dna", description "Storage of a DNA sample in Russia", posted by robomoon, Oct 10, 2008, to the "files" section of http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/ The following paragraph did not appear in the "universalimmortalism/messages" directory on Oct 10, 2008, since group member robomoon has tried to post it one day ago: Useful recommendation of a DNA sample, nice! Would it be possible to store that sample in Russia for something less than $1300? All payments which would make longterm storage at Kriorus successful to me would sum up to the amount of something more than $20000. Actually, access of www.kriorus.ru/english.html makes their server send a "403 Forbidden" message. Of cause, my application to your Secretary Tripper McCarthy demands an associate membership. Should I email it again? The above message is a response to message #1631 "Re: Application for membership, activities and involvement", by Mike Perry, Sep 16, 2008. A quote of his message: "It seems that your idea is to try to store digitizable information (photos, video recordings, etc.) in lieu of cryonics arrangements. We think a DNA sample should be added, and if at all possible, arrangements for some type of brain preservation even if not cryo." Message #1628 "Application for membership, activities and involvement", posted by robomoon on Sep 6, 2008: Email from 1. August 08 by robomoon-at....de to tripperm-at....com, subject: Universal Immortalism membership. Email contained my home address and attachment: Filled out declaration. Dear Mr. McCarthy! Messages about http://www.cyberev.org/ and Memory Upload at your Yahoo Group have drawn my attention to you. So here's something that I had more or less to do with: Asteromed e.V. in Frankfurt, Germany, is a nonprofit association. I am its founder as well as the chairman of the board since 1998. Behind Asteromed was a strategy: 1st, administration and storage of personal data. Each item in storage should be a description about the identity of an individual mind. 2nd, longterm storage of personal data for later upload into intelligent creatures of artificial life. It was also my hope to transform Asteromed into a partner organization of FALK e.V. Before the year 2000, FALK was the leading association for Cryonics in Germany. Of cause, I also had been a member, but the organization went lost. Michael Saxer, the leader of FALK, kept dealing on with Norbert Nickles, also a former member of the organization. They met Dr. Toma, a US-scientist who works for Cryonics in Switzerland. After their meeting with Peter Toma in December 2003, they did their own business without further interest in FALK. People in Germany don't like to talk about things that I'm trying to understand, for e.g., existential risks in space. So Asteromed as an organization is currently quite defunct. Two members of Asteromed are not alive anymore and the only thing I could do for them is to find out how to collect and store some digital data about them. Anyway, they were not interested in Cryonics at all. Well, I tried to figure out a way to sign up at Kriorus in Russia, but I'm not that smart to earn enough for a life-insurance. So http://www.cyberev.org/ makes myself comfortable with the idea of immortality. Attached is a copy of the declaration incl. my signature, produced with a text program and electronic data scanning. Please let me know if membership will be ok and if I'm allowed to upload this letter to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/ or somewhere else. Kind regards Hartmut Liedtke (Address attached) Homepage: http://www.shintoist.com Further interesting pages: http://www.tierkryonik.de/home.htm http://www.biostasis.de/firmengeschichte.htm http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=9375 http://www.blick.ch/sonntagsblick/aktuell/artikel32137 --------------end of message #1-------------- --------------responses to #1-------------- No direct reply, but a response to the file "dna" consisting of two messages by a member of Universal Immortalism discussion at YAHOO GROUPS. Title of the file "dna": "Storage of a DNA sample in Russia". Storage of the file in the "files" section of the group, uploaded by robomoon, Oct 10, 2008. A message by arcturus12453 on 12.10.08 with title "Membership & DNA Storage" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1649 contained a note about my file ("dna") including the content of it. Another message by arcturus12453 on 14.10.08 with title "Storage for Personal Mementos and Genetic Info" at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/message/1654 contained an info about storage space. Extraction and summary: For about $150/year our Society could rent about 55 cubic feet of air-conditioned, secured underground vault space to store some of the personal mementos of our members when they go into cryostasis. Pictures, diaries, or other small irreplaceables or things that might jog weakened memory. The underground vault would also be convenient for storage of genetic information in dry preservation format. --------------end of responses to #1-------------- --------------message #2-------------- http://www.imminst.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24586 posted to the subforum Cryonics at ImmInst Forums on 10.10.08 Reply to "Cheapest technique, Permafrost burial already possible?" There's no way for me to make frequent payments to an insurance for Cryonics because of my bad income situation. So I've also tried to get something cheaper. Here's my latest effort http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Venturists/message/1043 where I've tried to gain interest in storage of a small DNA sample in Russia. That should be storage for less than $1300, together with some written information about my personal data. Check out http://lifenaut.com/ too! The cheapest technique which actually seems to work for those who are able to raise a bit more money than me goes like this: Check out Kriorus, who is the only company cheaper than CI and Alcor. All the others went broke or are more expensive. Currently, their home page http://kriorus.ru/ has the following content with title "Forbidden" and main page "You don't have permission to access / on this server." Don't hesitate to choose them if you are aged or sick to the point of being nearly death. Then put your last resources together and go to their place in the Moscow area. That will spare you funding costs of shipping (from $1000 to $10000), embalming (from $1000 to $3000) and additional services (from $500 to $5000). Something looks even better if you can fund $14000 by a Russian insurance. --------------end of message #2-------------- --------------response to #2-------------- Forum user Winterbreeze replied on 11.10.08. Extraction from his message: This will certainly be a CLONE. --------------end of response to #2-------------- --------------follow-up for #2-------------- 12.10.08, I replied to the above response (starting with a quote from Winterbreeze's response): QUOTE "What good will it bring you storing your DNA sample? This will certainly be a CLONE." END OF QUOTE. Sorry that the term DNA sample is so much related to cloning, but nobody needs a clone of mine. There should rather be a merger between some digital reflections and the code of my DNA. Digital reflections about my personal data are at http://cyberev.org and further pages. Cybernetics need time, so imagine a suspension for thousand years. After storage, a comparison between enhanced DNA and the DNA sample will be the leading characteristics of my cybernetic outline. After thousand years of progress in genomics, enhanced DNA must show great differences. These differences will be the problems which my avatar must be able to cope with. There is no avatar right now, but I want to let this recovery of digital reflections happen. To make it clear for any mind: In thousand years, there can be a robot with friendly Artificial Intelligence instead of a reactive clone with a damaged brain. --------------end of follow-up for #2-------------- --------------message #3-------------- http://www.network54.com/Forum/291677/message/1224806414/ posted to The Cold Filter on 23.10.08 in reply to "consciousness & uploading" Uploading is good for me! Ten years ago, someone replied to me: Eat one less pizza per month and you'll have enough money for Cryonics. But I had a computer. Later I emailed to Alcor, asking them if they could do business with me. No reply. So I wondered if there are contracts for a cheap straight freeze of a brain - resulting in a later uploading into an artificial brain. Eight years ago, someone told me: Wait for a chance to get into the Cryonics business. But I had a printer and epoxy resin. Later I emailed to Cryonics Institute, asking them if they could sign up for a couple of hundred Dollars. "Wrong time" was their reply. So I wondered if there are contracts for embedding of my brain in epoxy for storage together with documents which contain private stories about my fantasies - resulting in a later transferral into an artificial mind. Five years ago, someone offered me a job for one year without a great danger of getting fired. The trade-off: Low wages. But I had a Basic Compiler for a Disk Operating System and some plastic glue. Later I uploaded a program which worked with patterns of my personal data to http://www.smartgroups.com/groups/smados while hoping this would remain forever. SmartGroups closed down on November, 2006, but I still carry my handwritten Testament referring to the program with me. So I wondered if there are contracts for transferring a piece of my mind into a free programming environment - triggering a later detection of my DNA, embedded in dry glue at home. Three years ago, I still worked to get fired and got fired to get work. But I had a goal: Survival without being knocked out by either an employer who knew he pays too much or one of my relatives who knew that I don't pay enough. Later I got away due to my early retirement because of an increasing illness. So far, my employer has done his job and my relatives have their Life Insurances. So I wondered if there are contracts for embalming with Ethanol - to let AI decide if a burial in northern Siberia and personal traces in the Internet are good enough. One hour ago, I wrote the beginning of this text. But I had an idea. Later, the AI of my computer, though not human-like, danced to http://canonizer.com/topic.asp/80/3 too. So I wonder if there are contracts - http://www.universalimmortalism.org replies. For cross-posting at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/universalimmortalism/messages --------------end of message #3-------------- --------------1st responses to #3-------------- A forum user with login BFrank64A posted on 26.10.08 with title: "A silly question." He stated that people talk about uploading their minds to a computer or just placing a DNA sample into cryostasis. Despite of that, a DNA sample or the result of Mind Uploading into a computer can't be me. I always have to be the original person with my original brain. So he asked who would be me if several copies were made: Let's say the original brain is severely damaged. Would the copy that would be installed into the brain be me? Uploading doesn't make sense to him and he is sure: When my original brain were to be destroyed, I would perish. A forum user with login Edward-M posted on 26.10.08 with title: "slow uploading" He suggested the following for successful uploading from a normal brain to a computer: Add memory upgrade, cpu, & sensory card (like vision, etc.) There were two further responses by a forum user with login sirdanny casting doubt on the point where the actual consciousness can be transferred to hardware. --------------end of 1st responses to #3-------------- --------------1st follow-up for #3-------------- 26.10.08, I replied to the above response. Title: Backups are rather thoughtful than silly 1st fact: Uploading a human mind to a storage device requires backups and a sensory card which are unknown in current science. Thus, I'd like to upload documents which contain private stories about my fantasies. 2nd fact: CI offers storage of DNA, but they'd leave reanimation of samples to different providers. Placing a DNA sample into cryostasis can be valuable for those who pay for Cryonics anyway. But it requires further agreements with a different provider who is planning to turn the DNA sample into an animated form of life. Thus, I'm choosing a fixation technology which allows storage of dry DNA at room temperature. 3rd fact: What I am after death without storage of my DNA and some of my memorabilia inside file archives is not me, but only ashes inside an urn (next to the theories of my favorite believe system). An android of artificial life is rather me than some pieces of dust. It's not me like today and I bet that's what I should be after 100 years as somebody who got no money for Cryonics. 4rd fact: If several copies were made, I would be the first of all copies. If nobody could find a difference between the 1st and the later copies, the poorest of all will be me. Rich people never have a financial problem to sign up for Cryonics, and indeed, they aren't like me. 5th fact: Let's face the actual problem that my brain is already damaged; severely enough for loss of quick memorizing and mathematical ability, but not severely enough for an immediate loss of life. The copy with the repaired brain would be me, and please, destroy that damaged old brain when repair has succeeded. 6th fact: Uploading makes no sense when anyone interested in Life Extension has signed up for Cryonics. --------------end of 1st follow-up for #3-------------- --------------2nd response to #3-------------- A forum user with login BFrank64A posted on 26.10.08 with title: "I'm not here to do battle." His reply begins with a quote from the above message: QUOTE "Rich people never have a financial problem to sign up for Cryonics, and indeed, they aren't like me." END OF QUOTE. It goes on that he makes about $25000 a year in his current job, and he managed to make arrangements for Cryonics. So declared CI as the beneficiary for the group policy ($50000) of his Life Insurance. He further stated that he is by no means, rich, but he managed to make arrangements, just the same. --------------end of 2nd response to #3-------------- --------------2nd follow-up for #3-------------- 26.10.08, I replied to the above response. Title: Don't battle, do the math! According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ you you're in the TOP 10.08% richest people in the world. Now calculate, how far the statistical deviation goes. --------------end of 2nd follow-up for #3-------------- --------------3rd response to #3-------------- A forum user with login BFrank64A posted on 26.10.08 with title: "Thanks." He stated that he did the math, and, yes, according to the web site to which I directed him, he is amongst the world's richest people. His reply continues with adverse criticism about the calculated result including allegations of an economic mess in the United States he is in. --------------end of 3rd response to #3-------------- --------------message #4-------------- 24.11.08, posted to the Discussion Board which is administered by the Society for Universal Immortalism at facebook http://www.facebook.com Biometrics It's been a while since my application for associate membership at SfUI, which contained a signed Declaration of Intent to be Cryopreserved. Only recently I managed to get two people signing that declaration as witnesses. The signatures on the declaration are from my wife and my mother. They don't want that I'm paying for an uncommon longevity gamble, so it took some time to convince them that the associate membership I'm applying for requires no payments for Cryonics. DGAB, Deutsche Gesellschaft für Angewandte Biostase (transl.: "German society for applied biostasis") at http://biostase.de hasn't given me any kind of support in this case. Well, I signed the petition http://www.thepetitionsite.com/2/preserve-the-right-of-those-who-are-dying-to-choose-cryonics "Preserve the right of those who are dying to choose cryonics". If you haven't already done, I'm asking you to sign this petition to help us reach our goal of 1,000 signatures. I care deeply about this cause, and I hope you will support our efforts. However, it's impossible for the majority of people in this world to obtain a Life Insurance which covers Cryonics including overseas fees and additional costs. Therefore, Chemo Suspension http://shintoist.com/chemsusproblems.htm should be provided in many countries out of ethical responsibility. Hope for a digital transformation of the mind due to a steady approach towards the mapping of chemically preserved brain sections after longterm suspension doesn't require freezing for scientific justification. Actually, I'm a bit nervous about unaccomplished transportation of archive tins from USA to Germany. There are dried samples of my biologic biometrics in them, but delivery hasn't been accomplished by the postal service. The manufacturer DNA Direct informed me, they are stuck in customs. Now I'm still waiting for a message from the customs office. Are we Transbemans yet? http://jetpress.org/v18/rothblatt.htm works for me in terms of bemes. When I receive the tins, I'll choose http://cyberev.org to upload a file with information about the storage of my biometrics. --------------end of message #4-------------- Additional Notes Sample-Matrix, DNA Archive, Yahoo, SfUI, and some further names in this report are protected by copyright, registration of trademarks, and further rights owned by various companies named or not aforementioned. Owner of the robomoon identity and current registrant of shintoist.com is Hartmut Liedtke in Frankfurt a.M., Germany. --more may be added in version 1.3 of this report--